We’re here with fellow syncher Karl Tune. Thanks for asking me to speak with you! I’m sure we’ll have some interesting ideas to talk about.
Karl, I’ve read the transcript of your 2007 podcast where you were interviewed by “Synchronicity Arkive” webmaster Mike Johnston, the long time leader of our small troupe. As you of course know, I also participated in those first round of audiovisual synchronicity related podcast interviews that kicked off with your own, along with a number of other synching regulars like Dave Bytor and Stegokitty — and Mike himself was interviewed by you for the project. As a group, we shared a lot of common information through interactions on old watering holes like the “Synchronicity Arkive” forum and “The Film/Album Synchronicity Board”. I also remember personal correspondence to be common. Memories of strong interactions were fresher in 2007. It’s good to rekindle them again in the following decade.
As you also know, I consider 2001’s “Shared Fantasia” a kind of touchstone work for the old group, perhaps not so much for its worth as a final product as for the story behind the synch, and the people who made it happen and how they came together to create something greater than the individual parts. “Shared Fantasia” was mentioned in most if not all of the 2007 interviews. I’m fuzzier about the “Shared Fantasia 2000” product you mentioned in your podcast, which acted as a followup. I wonder if you could tell us about your experiences with that synch. I admittedly don’t recall the “Shared Animatrix” project you also cited.
Hi Baker! Thank you for interviewing me. Yes, it has been a long time. Some of us have been synching for almost 20 years now. Me, not so long. You correctly classified me as “the Second Wave” group of synchers. My perspective may present a different version of history. Feel free to correct me if my memory is in error.
You, Andrew Wendland, and 2% David warmly welcomed me to the synching group. I lurked for a few months. Though my first post was immensely flamed by a rambling psychotic who was never heard from again.
While lurking, I read about the magical moment where the idea of “Shared Fantasia” was conceived and constructed within minutes. It seemed that you all were thinking on the same wavelength of an idea whose time had come! I was able to experience the symbiosis of “Shared Fantasia” by the early masters of our trade. I was in awe of the magic of people who were matching music to movies. I wanted in. I wanted to try this too!
When it was proposed to create a “Shared Fantasia 2000”, I jumped at the chance! I think I was the first volunteer because I remember closing my eyes and pointing at the computer screen to randomly pick my section, the whale section. The section you see is my very first try! I spent another 4 hours taking notes and trying different music to find something better but my first impression was best.
We had very few volunteers for “Shared Fantasia 2000” so we were offered a second section to cover. I declined a second section, 1) because I had no idea of how to convert my idea to digital, and, 2) because I tried covering different sections with little success. I ended up giving verbal instructions and some time cues to recreate my “Whale Dream” synch. I was amazed that Whytless Physh successfully recreated that! Whytless added random whale and seagull noises to my synch and it just confused me to no end. Thankfully, he was able to delete the extra sound track, except for a few seagull sound still made it through (but that’s okay).
I had no idea what anybody else was doing with their section. Whytless proposed to include alternate sections of music to the same sections but that idea was dropped. I thought it would create fatigue in the viewer. Usually the biggest impression is with the first viewing experience.
I had to have a friend download and burn the finished “Shared Fantasia 2000” because my Russian Mafia Computer had become too antiquated to handle the current technology.
“Shared Fantasia” was epic and I expected that “Shared Fantasia 2000” would just be shadow of the former electric group project. But happily, “Shared Fantasia 2000” is just as powerful as an artistic statement! When I watch the original “Fantasia 2000”, I am forced to conclude that our syncher sense of music matching was better in tune with the animation than the original music which the visual was animated to! That is atomic mind blowing!
Karl, thanks very much for filling me in on the history of “Shared Fantasia 2000”, a story that certainly should be saved, along with the final product of course. At some point we should speak of a possible archives to collect landmark audiovisual synchronicities, especially coming from what we’ve dubbed the Golden Age of Synching in a group sense, or the period from about 1997 to 2003 or 2004. After the demise of “The Film/Album Synchronicity Board” in September 2002 my own participation in audiovisual group activities waned significantly, perhaps explaining in part our rather different sets of memories for the times.
I know you took part in some other shared projects at around the same time that “Shared Fantasia 2000” was going on. Besides “Shared Animatrix,” I also recall you mentioning a fascinating experiment called “Shared Aurea” — think I have that name correct. Care to tell us more about those projects? Or maybe you wish to talk more about “Shared Fantasia 2000” and the people involved and how it all came together. I also recall a lot of different synchronicity groups or forums branching off from the main watering holes I mentioned before. It wasn’t just the “Synchronicity Arkive” board and the directly related “Film/Album Synchronicity Forum”. There were others. Pick and choose what you wish to talk about from all that.
For the “Shared Fantasia 2000” Project, I had no communication with the other participants and I do not know them in the real world. We all used pseudonyms to protect our real identities. I do not want anybody to know who I am.
When I showed my real world friends both “Shared Fantasia” and “Shared Fantasia 2000”, they were inspired by these group projects in matching music to movies. Led by the Galactic Hombre, this real world group I was part of was going to cover the movie “Aurea” with our own music. The original movie made live action by various movie makers to match classic opera Aureas. We would then replace the music with our own choice. It would be called something like “Shared Aurea” but I am sure my friends would come up with a hipper cleverer name for it. We divided up the sections between us and set about covering the movie. I was told to keep this project secret. Galactic Hombre wanted to blow our synching group out of the water with this profound act. You would never know what hit you from another dimension.
Well, covering a movie with music is not as easy as “Shared Fantasia” and “Shared Fantasia 2000” made it appear. It takes determination and persistence to complete a group project. I covered my section of “Shared Aurea”, matching the mood and lyrics to the visual cues. But the other participants never got around to find satisfying music matches or even finishing up their sections.
Baker, somebody on your synch board or the Arkiver’s synch board publicly announced “Shared Animatrix” using the profound movie “Animatrix”, again I was the first joiner and picked a choice section. I think I really rocked it with Linkin Park and Ozric Tentacles music matching the raw power of the animation matrix. But we had almost no volunteers and this group project also fizzled out.
This shows me that there may be other synchronistic art groups completely separated from our own. They may be operating in parallel worlds. We may all have doppelgangers in other artistic dimensions. One day they may blind side us and completely amaze us with their ability when we finally do meet up.
“Shared Fantasia” and “Shared Fantasia 2000” are powerful statements by our community. They showcase our individual artistic talent and the ability to harmonize as a group. It takes determination and a work ethic to produce and finish a group project. Our syncher collective consciousness and multi media abilities have a real world power!
“The Dark Side of Oz” aka “The Dark Side of the Rainbow” has us as enormously talented and resourceful allies to promote this fun urban legend. Baker, you create message boards and consistently blog with Sunklands. Mike Johnston and Matt Bolton produce informative 30 minute multimedia interviews. Randy Teaford has Viral Art Media Site, creates multi media mashup synchs, and hosts “The Dark Side of Oz” in theaters. Michael Allen also hosts movie nights and presents “The Dark Side of Oz” in theaters too. The DeVille who promotes synchs also produces movies. Chris Alison draws cartoons for the internet and creates cartoon books. And the rest of our merry band of synchers have other multi media and artistic talents. You are all globally active wizards to advance our art. The force is strong with you all.
But wait! There’s more! Rich Aucoin is a talented traveling singer/songwriter who synchronizes some of his songs to movies. Jason Poe manages the music band Otis. Many of you created your own web sites for synchs. There is still so much symbiosis and life with our group. Even after 20 years of “The Dark Side of Oz”.
Karl, I was thinking about some of these same things while walking around today. Although we aren’t as cohesive a group as back in our so-called Golden Age, we continue to be creatively fueled and inspired by our still shared hobby with its wellspring of “Dark Side of the Rainbow.”
We have so much more we could talk about! How about cueing points and test points for repeating an audiovisual synchronicity in a home environment, let’s call it. With so many media options out there today, the repeatability factor seems considerably more complex and tricky than back in the days when there was just VHS tapes and CDs to worry about. Yet to me, and I’m guessing you as well, you have to have that factor in place to properly call it “synchronicity”. Else we’re either talking about just more or less random synchronizations between movies and music or, on the other hand, highly manipulated ones that can only be viewed when committed to a fixed product such as a DVD or video file.
You are a dedicated reviewer of audiovisual synchs, and I’m guessing that you’ve re-created a good number of these armed with the needed DVDs and CDs. It’s a really big challenge as I’m viewing it: how to keep that crucial and perhaps even core factor alive in an age of digital domination and media bombardment. “Gadgetry” is another word that comes to mind. You must have some interesting stories to tell about this.
Yes, we have many diverse and talented members in our synchronicity group. I wish I had time to mention them all. We all bring different tools to our collective table. Our cross pollination of ideas will drive hybridization of mass media and allow adaptation across a diverse world wide web. We are a pre-adapted engine of brain storming. Our hybridization could drive the change in a tangled web of connectedness and symbiosis. A cross pollination of ideas to unleash variation.
Yes! Cueing was very important for audience participation before the digital age. Where and when do you combine the elements of music and movie?
When we combine the movie on the VCR tape with a seemingly unrelated vinyl record music, we get the sense of synchronicity where two obviously unrelated elements become harmonious. This is the alchemy I started synching with in mysterious late night sessions. It was a big leap in technology when I started using music CDs. When we reviewed each other’s work like this, we could also play with the elements ourselves and become the participating audience of synchers to find different or better matches. That’s what hooked me!
That element of audience participation is lost in this digital age. Many of our computer friendly comrades can easily meld visual and audio elements into a digital package link. While this enables us to reach a vastly larger audience for our message, we lose the aura of synchronicity with physically different media. Synchs just become more like another digital mash up. Just click on the link and you are there in a wink!
As a reviewer, digital synchs have made it much easier to just click on a link. But I have lost my kinesthetic feel for unrelated media elements of synchronicity.
This enters into the realm of how I define music matched to movies. I refer to this in the physical term of “Simultaneity” where two different elements happen at the same time. It is a conjunction of media from our relative perspective in time and space. I call music movie matches “Simo” for short.
We synchers also have an isolated culture creating a “Cultural Relativism” where our ideas and concepts of matching movies to seemingly unrelated movies are unique to our Syncher civilization. We draw on our past experiences and expectations. Outsiders may scoff at what they are not trained to perceive.
If a musician writes a sound track for a movie, then it can only be a true match for one movie. It is a fact that “there can only be one!”
If there can only be one, then let us explore the creation of this fact. I’ll list some possibilities.
1. Complete Simo. The music and lyrics soundtrack the movie.
2. Musical Simo. Only the music matches the movie. The lyrics were not intended to match.
3. Lyrical Simo. Only the lyrics match the movie. The music was not intended to match.
4. Chiral Simo. The music and movie are chiral with each other. They are the same elements but have different configurations. Just like the fact your left hand is chiral to your right hand. They are exactly the same, yet never an exact match. The artist may speed up or slow down the music after originally sound tracking the movie.
5. Movie Simo. The movie is edited to existing music. Examples are: 2001 with classical music. The Matrix to “Wish You Were Here”, and “The French Connection” chase scene to Santana. Marco Deconno is a big believer in this.
If the music matches a movie, then how can it match as a sound track simultaneity?
1. Straight play. The music is a straight play.
2. Sectional Play. The music covers different parts of the movie with other parts of the movie in between not covered by music.
3. Overlap Play. Different music tracks cover the very same part of the movie.
4. Tile (see Baker definition)
5. Golden Tile (see Baker definition)
6. Repeat Play. As soon as the album finishes, immediately restart the music again to finish covering the movie.
7. Back masking. Backwards soundtrack to match a movie. SimonID4 is a big proponent of this.
8. Puzzle Play. The music tracks are not in sequential order and must be re-arranged into a straight, sectional, or repeat play.
Karl, I remember you creating a similar list of classifications for the facebook group called “Film Album Synchronicities” that we both frequent. Just as a side note, this is not related to my old forum I mentioned before, called instead “The Film/Album Synchronicity Board”. Along with defining what I call “cued regions”, classification of audiovisual synchs seems like another crucial aspect to clarify in moving our field forward into modern times. You have made a noble beginning here. On the facebook group, I also recall responding to your prompt to talk about tiling and golden tiles, but that is another large and difficult subject to tackle, best saved for my own audiovisual synchronicity related interview coming up soon.
(end Part 1 of 2)
(beg Part 2 of 2)
We’re back with Karl Tune, updating an original podcast created in 2007 where he was interviewed by Synchronicity Arkive webmaster Mike Johnston. Karl, when we last spoke you proposed a scheme to classify audiovisual synchronicities. While we could break this down and talk about each type individually — and we may return to that — I think back to your earlier comment about kinesthetic feel in terms of audiovisual synch making, and how that’s been lost in an age where you just click on a link to watch a video. Speaking as a fellow long time syncher, I too lament this loss of direct interaction with audio and video “objects” such as CDs and DVDs — in a group way. Not to dwell too much on our agreed upon Golden Age, but there was a real sense of everyone being on approximately the same level and moving forward together, culminating in the shared projects we’ve been talking about.
When working out classification, we can always return to the bedrock synchronicities “Dark Side of the Rainbow” and “2001-Echoes”, which would be more familiar to those outside our small group. In the early days of the “Synchronicity Arkive”, a considerable amount of talk was put forth about the worth of one over the other. To me they seem like rather different animals. How would you classify each of these works? You can also fit in further discussion of cuing points here if you wish.
“Dark Side of the Rainbow” and “2001-Echoes” are the urban legends which snare everybody into our world wide web of synchronicity. Because both are so commonly viewed, they are the “Lingua Franca” or common language between us all. As a common experience, they are the universal measuring sticks on the level of harmonious matching. It is quite natural for everybody to reference these two synchs.
These two happen to be the first two synchronicities I experienced which brought me into your wonderful creation “The Film/Album Synchronicity Board”. I felt like a garage chemist combining these two with cueing a VCR tape with a newly purchased CD music player. I had heard of both of these in the 1980’s from notorious Pink Floyd fans. It did seem like a bunch of bong wash but my curiosity was caught.
I think it is interesting that it is two Pink Floyd albums which bring everybody in. I did not own any Pink Floyd music until this moment. Are Pink Floyd fans just that much more creative? Is it the music which begs to be used a movie sound track? I happen to call “Dark Side of the Rainbow” as “Dark Side of Oz” but a rose is a rose by any other name.
These two also seem vastly different to me. The first one I heard of in 1981 and tried about 1999 was “Dark Side of Oz” using the entire Pink Floyd “Dark Side of the Moon” album in a straight play to cover the fantasy escape movie “Wizard of Oz” after the third roar of the MGM lion. The fact that the entire album matches well throughout the entire movie is quite an amazing feat! And the amount of noticeable coincidences makes the match seem quite intentional on Pink Floyd’s part. Though I do not recall any direct “Oz” references in the lyrics. I held “Dark Side of Oz” parties to share this amazing multimedia mashup.
The second one, “2001-Echoes”, I read about in 1999 on Michael Johnston’s web site “Synchronicity Arkive” and tried at the end of the year 2001. This involves a sectional play using only the mostly instrumental “Echoes” track from Pink Floyd’s “Meddle” to cover from the very beginning of “Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite” (JaBtI) section of Kubrick’s movie version of Arthur C. Clarke’s futuristic prediction “2001: A Space Odyssey”. I saw “2001” in the theaters when it first came out and wanted to watch it again in the actual year 2001. And since “Dark Side of Oz” worked so well for me, I would give this synch a whirl.
Shockingly, “2001-Echoes” did not match one bit for me! It was so bad that I knew I could do better! And I wanted to try other musicians and movies. “2001-Echoes” being so horrid is what brought me into your synching group. Everybody thought was obviously “doing it wrong” because I did not “get it”. Members of our community re-posted the cue point and I suffered through it again. Uggh! Yes, I hate it!
Obviously these two synchs are vastly different to me. Since we draw on our own expectations and experiences, the subjective nature of observing and appreciating synchronicity can be vastly different for each one of us. Even a few seconds off can alter the perception entirely! There is not a universal speed for some music and movie players so check points need to be used to ensure that you are in fact witnessing the same symbiosis.
And we all love to debate on whether “Dark Side of the Rainbow” and “2001-Echoes” were intentional by Pink Floyd. We want to know!
Karl, I appreciated “Dark Side of the Rainbow” more as well, although to me “2001-Echoes” works alright as a synchronicity. When talking about “2001-Echoes” at any length, I usually like to slip in mention of Stegokitty’s very similar “Contact-Echoes”, a quite early synchronicity from the late 1990s which I know you appreciate a lot more. It uses the same piece of music — Floyd’s fabulous “Echoes” from the album “Meddle”, perhaps their greatest overall track — and also a quite similar segment of film from “Contact” to the famous “2001” stargate sequence, where the character Ellie Arroway played by Jodie Foster enters a wormhole system to travel to Vega. In former podcasts I recall we bantered around the idea of “Contact-Echoes”, by itself, largely disproving Floydian intent for “2001-Echoes” and by association “Dark Side of the Rainbow.” I know Stegokitty himself went to some lengths on his well known web site “The Definitive List” to disprove such intent on the part of Pink Floyd, including quotes from band members on the “Dark Side of the Rainbow” phenomenon. On the other hand, we have another early syncher Andrew Wendland championing a Floydian intent theory, citing such works as “Alice-Wall” and the similar length between album and movie in that case if you drop one track from the former — “Comfortably Numb” I believe. And of course we also have the quote from Roger Waters expressing disappointment that Floyd wasn’t selected to create the music for “2001”‘s stargate sequence. Some say he afterwards masterminded “Echoes” to be an alternate soundtrack to same. So setting the stage in that way, I’ll let you speak about the intent aspect again if you wish.
“Contact-Echoes” is stupendously good and harmonious match between the music and the movie! But because the music came out before the movie, it does seem to disprove any intent theory by the musicians. And ironically, I thought that Stegokitty’s “Definitive List” was set up to prove intent on “The Dark Side of Oz”. The “Definitive List” is frequently referenced to prove intent by Pink Floyd. It is funny how we can twist facts to meet our perception and bias.
I am an admirer of Andrew Wendland’s early simple web site because it seemed like something I might try one day. I first heard of “Alice-Wall” back in 1981 from notorious Pink Floyd fans. They pointed out the strange sounds in the “the Wall” and how it matched “Alice in Wonderland” like the sound of a plane engine taking a nose dive and then a baby babbling and how it matched “Wonderland”. This is when they told me about “The Dark Side of Oz” but I don’t think they named it such. I don’t recall when the starting point was for “Alice-Wall” mentioned in 1981.
I have seen so many versions of “The Wall” with “Alice in Wonderland”. At least 3 or 4. “Candy123” on your message board claimed to be the originator of “Alice-Wall” and had the best version I like. I think you start CD2 when you first see the rabbit and follow with CD1 in a full straight play.
BUT “The Wall” also works surprisingly well with “Toy Story” (by who?) and “Apocalypse Now” by Marco. which also disprove any intent by Pink Floyd in my mind. In my bias, I don’t like the “Apocalypse Now/The Wall” but it does match in the multitudes of ways that Marco claims.
I used to think that Pink Floyd was intentionally creating a sound track to one movie, but their music now seems to universally match many movies. This kind of ruins the intent theory for me.
You all have fantastic ideas for matches. As a hunter for matches, I know it is not easy to find good harmony. You all make it look so easy! I enjoy watching everybody’s syncs you put all this time and effort into. And it is even easier now when you post links to a pre-melded audio-visual sync. Though the mystique and magic of audience participation of matching at home is gone when it is prepackaged like this.
I also remember Dave Bytor creating several “Wall” synchs, including one matching it with “Titanic”, and another dubbing the black and white cult movie “Pi,” if I remember correctly. But I recall my favorite one being Michael Allen’s “Show Truman The Wall”, which combines the double album with the Jim Carrey vehicle “The Truman Show,” one of his best flicks for certain. I also have told the story in several places now about a lost weekend spent trying out the various “Alice-Wall” recipes I had gathered from internet sources. I simply couldn’t get any one version to work that well. It definitely wasn’t “Dark Side of the Rainbow” to me. And that could have been a spot where I decided to stop trying recipes at home and just allow people to send me tapes of synchronicities instead. That way we were most definitely looking at the same product, and not something affected by, say, speed variations in CD players or incorrect cuing points or differently edited versions of the same movie. And also I didn’t have to go out and buy the needed album or albums if I didn’t have them, or rent movies.
Yeah, in looking back we were very fortunately to have a band like Pink Floyd to jumpstart the whole process with their two landmark concept albums and then a lot of other excellent, fluid music surrounding them — the album side long “Echoes” for example. We had that common source to draw on; it was worth buying their albums. Like you, I didn’t have any Pink Floyd CDs when I stumbled upon “Dark Side of the Rainbow” in ’97. Now I own all their major work. And I think it is also very important to comment that we’re talking about, in many cases, large *continuous* chunks of music with no worrisome song breaks to mess with. The entire first half of “Dark Side of the Moon” is an unbroken musical suite. Same for the second half. When people look at the Kansas half of a non-repeating “Dark Side of the Rainbow”, we can be more assured that they’re all looking at the same thing if they start the album at MGM mascot Leo the Lion’s 3rd roar at the beginning of “The Wizard of Oz”. The Oz part — the second half of the synch — already creates complications, however, because you have to bridge that gap between side 1 and side 2. I’m curious Karl: how do you set up “Dark Side of the Rainbow”? Do you use the popular repeat mode or just stop it at the end of one album play?
Matching music to movies definitely takes much patience and time.
I do not like “The Wall” music much but I do like it better when I play it with a movie. The movie adds a vital essence. This got me to thinking of a “Best of Pink Floyd” album. How would you synch with it???
Somebody once told me that when you buy a “Best of…” album, you miss the story the artist was trying to say with the entire original album.
For “Dark Side of the Rainbow”, I start “Dark Side of the Moon” on the third roar of the MGM lion in the “Wizard of Oz”. I stop after the album ends. I have NEVER done a repeat play to see how it covers more of the movie.
Fantastic Karl! I’m reminded of the old adage here: great minds think alike, hehe. Well, I’m going to go ahead and open the door for you to talk about anything else you want to: more details about “Dark Side of the Rainbow” (*always* open for that!); more on synchers present and past and their projects and the discussion watering holes they frequented; more on *your* projects. A specific question comes to mind actually. What do your feel are your personal successes in the synching field, things you felt you hit the nail on the head about, etc.? And then, conversely, not discussing failures per se, but things that you might do differently if you had to do them over. Connections you might make or strengthen, for example, or even connections you might not make if circumstances repeated.
I feel enlightened by this diverse synching community of ours. You all have so many ideas and visions. You all have your talents, skills, and humors. You all make me feel smarter with all the new information you share.
Some of our community try to unite us so that we can solve all the universe’s mysteries and transcend to the next tier of existence. But I think we are all just happy doing our own thing as individuals. We brainstorm as a collective. And sometimes our work manifests itself in the real world as a finished project.
I did want to point out that Dave Bytor was the first person who I know of in our community to cover a movie with non-Floyd music in his “Rush/Wonka Project”. That was BIG! Now these days, we all synch movies to all kinds of music, but Dave was the first to do something different about it.
As for my personal success, I enjoy watching movies to different music. Each time I try somebody’s idea, it is like opening up a gift. It is exciting to find out what unexpected wonders in harmony await. I prefer that I follow instructions on how to match a music CD to a movie DVD. That way I get the sense that these two items were not really supposed to go together, but some genius figured out how to combine unrelated mass media into a new art form and I am participating in this secret combination. I found some decent matches on my own that others here watched and thought were ok. I’m fine with that.
We all have seen alot of dogs in our day. We all have different tastes and perspective and I may not agree with you all. There have been plenty of instances where I did not enjoy a synch while many other people “Get It”. Numerous people have proposed a synch panel to judge and rate syncs. Michael Johnston had set up a way to rate synchs on his old “Synchronicity Arkive Data Bank” This would be an obvious way to “Standardize” our art form but we are not standard people. 😀 We do not have to be uniform to be unified.
I am somewhat technologically primitive. I don’t really comprehend how to protect myself from the internet, so I go by an alias. The rest of you are dragging me into the 21st Century with you. I cannot help but advance because of the environment you all create. I think our synching community, in our individual efforts, are driving the evolution of art and media.
We are all still connected thanks to Facebook Pages. I did not think I would still be with you synchers for 15 years, so far. I thought I would try it and move on. The far reach of Facebook found me cold chillin’ on my Iceberg of Isolation, some where off the far reaches of Iceland. I feel like an imaginary manifestation you all conjured up. Aren’t we all presenting the person we want to be seen as? But even as a fictitious virtual presence, I want to make this world a better place for us and our children.
That sounds like a marvelous wrap up to our interview, Karl. I can think of nothing else to add, except to say that I look forward to the next round where we reverse roles. I believe we will always be connected now. Syncher connections are special indeed.